nick wrote:
> The thread "Today the Hobbyist, Tommorow, The World!" seems to have
> drawn a group of people interested in improving the online presence of
> D. I read many reassuring posts and decided to create a new thread
> specifically for the purpose of improving the online presence of D.
> 
> Ideally D's online presence would be centralized. It would be approved
> and supported by Walter. Perhaps what we need is an "official" D site;
> one that would replace http://www.digitalmars.com/d/ (only with Walter's
> blessings, naturally). Walter would have the final say for what happens
> on this site, but the community could provide more content and present
> it well while freeing up Walter's time to work on the language.
> 
> I have made a template layout, and would like to donate it to the D
> cause. I hope I'm not being pretentious when I assume that with a little
> bit of polish, this layout will be good enough to represent D online.
> 
> http://hcoop.net/~natamas/d/template.html (improvements pending)

Somehow I think this one looks a lot better.  It was posted in another thread:

http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mockup5ey.jpg

It's simpler and I like the colors better.

And maybe dprogramming.com could become the address?  Probably wouldn't hurt to ask.

nick wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:
> 
>> 1) is it does not adjust when the window size is changed.
> Is this better?
> http://hcoop.net/~natamas/d/template.html

Yes, much. But why does it stop reformatting below a certain size?

>> Ok, I just think that the use of javascript should be minimized, because many have js disabled for security reasons.
> So, I am leaving the tab-outline-hack in since it doesn't affect
> functionality. Is that ok?

It's ok as long as it still works if js is disabled.

> It really doesn't affect appearance that much
> either. Some readers earlier asked for it and then went and looked up
> the hack for me =).
> 
> Regarding wikis:
>> I haven't done so already because of the numerous existing D wiki's. 
> I understand that there are lots out there. Having an official wiki
> promotes the idea that D is a language that means business. It also
> makes it easy for newcomers to dive right in. I think it would be great
> if we just moved the content of wiki4d to your hosting w/ my new layout
> and a new wiki engine. Ideally, the wiki would be integrated with the
> official D site fairly seamlessly. I can read up on different wiki
> engines and create a template that uses my layout. Then, all you'd have
> to do is install that same wiki engine on your site and use my template.
> 
> Thoughts?

It's a good idea, and it's ok with me if it's ok with Justin.

Tydr Schnubbis wrote:
> nick wrote:

>> http://hcoop.net/~natamas/d/template.html (improvements pending)
> 
> Somehow I think this one looks a lot better.  It was posted in another thread:
> 
> http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mockup5ey.jpg
> 
> It's simpler and I like the colors better.
That's not a layout. It's a JPEG. It is not possible to implement that JPEG in HTML without relying heavily on tables (I only use one table).

The colors issue can be addressed. I will provide a light and dark skin for my layout (switchable in firefox/safari). Give me an hour or two to create a light variant. We can default the site to the light variant if Walter decides that's a good idea.


> And maybe dprogramming.com could become the address?  Probably wouldn't hurt to ask.
That is a good idea; we could ask. On the other hand, digitalmars.com/d is already a top hit on google.

Walter Bright wrote:
> Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
> 
>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>
>>> www.d.com is already taken :-(
>>
>>
>> Not taken, reserved I think. Together with all other letters it seems.
> 
> 
> It's a squatter with a "make offer".

how about d-lang.com/net/org ? Dotster says it's available...


xs0

Walter Bright wrote:
> nick wrote:
>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>
>>> 1) is it does not adjust when the window size is changed.
>> Is this better?
>> http://hcoop.net/~natamas/d/template.html
> 
> Yes, much. But why does it stop reformatting below a certain size?
Because below that size visual anomalies appear. If you don't care about that we can remove the min-width restriction.

> It's a good idea, and it's ok with me if it's ok with Justin.
Sounds good to me. I'll get to work on that wiki research/layout.

Walter Bright wrote:
> nick wrote:
>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>
>>> 1) is it does not adjust when the window size is changed.
>> Is this better?
>> http://hcoop.net/~natamas/d/template.html
> 
> Yes, much. But why does it stop reformatting below a certain size?
> 
>>> Ok, I just think that the use of javascript should be minimized, because many have js disabled for security reasons.
>> So, I am leaving the tab-outline-hack in since it doesn't affect
>> functionality. Is that ok?
> 
> It's ok as long as it still works if js is disabled.
> 
>> It really doesn't affect appearance that much
>> either. Some readers earlier asked for it and then went and looked up
>> the hack for me =).
>>
>> Regarding wikis:
>>> I haven't done so already because of the numerous existing D wiki's. 
>> I understand that there are lots out there. Having an official wiki
>> promotes the idea that D is a language that means business. It also
>> makes it easy for newcomers to dive right in. I think it would be great
>> if we just moved the content of wiki4d to your hosting w/ my new layout
>> and a new wiki engine. Ideally, the wiki would be integrated with the
>> official D site fairly seamlessly. I can read up on different wiki
>> engines and create a template that uses my layout. Then, all you'd have
>> to do is install that same wiki engine on your site and use my template.
>>
>> Thoughts?
> 
> It's a good idea, and it's ok with me if it's ok with Justin.

Really, I don't see how it's my decision. I didn't establish Wiki4D. (That was Helmut Leitner.) I don't even host the wiki. (Again, that's Helmut Leitner.)

The content of is Wiki4D licensed under the Free Document License (http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?FreeDocumentationLicense): "In short: you may use, copy and change them, but the origin and your changes must be transparent and you must keep their FDL status. All the details should be taken from the original document made available by the GNU organisation...".

I don't have an interest in studying all of the competing wiki systems (or even in learning how to markup text for a different wiki) and I don't want to convert the existing content to a new wiki style (and they all seem to have a subtlety different style). If Nick wants to do that fine, but he can't expect any help from me. Frankly, it sounds like a waste of time to me. The day that the new wiki goes live people will start complaining about the HTML that it generates or the color of the links or the programming language that the wiki runs on or the database the wiki is stored in. There's always going to be someone who's dissatisfied and offers to set up the wiki in yet another wiki system. And the content will need to be converted again.

-- 
jcc7

Tydr Schnubbis wrote:
...
>> http://hcoop.net/~natamas/d/template.html (improvements pending)
> 
> Somehow I think this one looks a lot better.  It was posted in another thread:
> 
> http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mockup5ey.jpg
> 
> It's simpler and I like the colors better.

I think they each have different strengths and perhaps weaknesses.

What kind of HTML does it take to look like for "mockup5ey.jpg"?

(Nick started off which a graphic file, too, but he eventually shared the actual HTML/CSS with us.)

-- 
jcc7

Justin C Calvarese wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:

>> It's a good idea, and it's ok with me if it's ok with Justin.

> The content of is Wiki4D licensed under the Free Document License (http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?FreeDocumentationLicense): "In short: you may use, copy and change them, but the origin and your changes must be transparent and you must keep their FDL status. All the details should be taken from the original document made available by the GNU organisation...".

Fantastic; that's a green light for copying the content.


> I don't have an interest in studying all of the competing wiki systems (or even in learning how to markup text for a different wiki) and I don't want to convert the existing content to a new wiki style (and they all seem to have a subtlety different style). If Nick wants to do that fine, but he can't expect any help from me. Frankly, it sounds like a waste of time to me.
I simply asked my friends, who are web-gurus, regarding the choice of wiki. I am not asking you to convert anything; I will do that myself (or with a group effort involving several other enthusiasts).


> The day that the new wiki goes live people will
> start complaining about the HTML that it generates or the color of the
> links or the programming language that the wiki runs on or the database
> the wiki is stored in.

You can objectively say that one wiki is better than other by
considering facts. We need to choose one and go with it. Wiki4d has issues.

> There's always going to be someone who's
> dissatisfied and offers to set up the wiki in yet another wiki system.
> And the content will need to be converted again.

That's why there is going to be an official D wiki that everyone will find when they google for D and hit digitalmars.com/d. All other wikis will become secondary; especially because their content will have been moved to the official D wiki.

The point is not to make all the existing D fans happy. The point is to make D appear like a professional effort to create a new programming language. At the moment doing a google search for D does not give you that immediate impression. This is what I am aiming to fix. I think many people on the newsgroup agree.

nick schrieb:
> Tydr Schnubbis wrote:
>> And maybe dprogramming.com could become the address?  Probably wouldn't
>> hurt to ask.
> That is a good idea; we could ask. On the other hand, digitalmars.com/d
> is already a top hit on google.

I don't think that's so problematic.

If Walter sets a 301 HTTP redirect from digitalmars.com/d to (for example) dprogramming.com, Google will follow the redirect and will realize that the url has changed.
But don't ask me how this redirecting actually works. ;)

Hmm, and then every site that mentions the old address would have to update their links.

Google describes this at http://www.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=9071&topic=363

Florian

nick wrote:
> Tydr Schnubbis wrote:
>> nick wrote:
> 
>>> http://hcoop.net/~natamas/d/template.html (improvements pending)
>> 
>> Somehow I think this one looks a lot better.  It was posted in another
>> thread:
>> 
>> http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mockup5ey.jpg
>> 
>> It's simpler and I like the colors better.
> That's not a layout. It's a JPEG. It is not possible to implement that
> JPEG in HTML without relying heavily on tables (I only use one table).
> 
Why not? It doesn't have be done pixel by pixel.  Look at this:
http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=/099/099.css

No tables there.