It will be a real pity if D did not succeed as a programming language. In order for it to succeed, it needs a good collection of APIs which cover the most usual needs for writing applications.

We are a lot of people in here that are interested about D. I suggest we organize ourselves and design the APIs and libraries which Digital Mars will approve as the official D APIs.

I am saying all this because many people have individually started to code libraries, especially GUIs. It would be a waste of resources for each one of us to try individually, since APIs are a lot of work. Therefore, I suggest we make some sort of 'committee', by whoever is willing to participate, and produce a set of specifications for the APIs that should exist.

After we finish specifications, we can divide the work in chunks and proceed to the implementation either individually or in groups.

What does everybody think on this ?

I am still of the same opinion as when Lars suggested this several months ago. (My post was "Re: D standard library group proposal", on the 4th Feb 2004. I don't know how to use the web interface to search, I'm afraid.)


"Achilleas Margaritis" <axilmar@b-online.gr> wrote in message news:c640sa$lsh$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> It will be a real pity if D did not succeed as a programming language. In
order
> for it to succeed, it needs a good collection of APIs which cover the most
usual
> needs for writing applications.
>
> We are a lot of people in here that are interested about D. I suggest we organize ourselves and design the APIs and libraries which Digital Mars
will
> approve as the official D APIs.
>
> I am saying all this because many people have individually started to code libraries, especially GUIs. It would be a waste of resources for each one
of us
> to try individually, since APIs are a lot of work. Therefore, I suggest we
make
> some sort of 'committee', by whoever is willing to participate, and
produce a
> set of specifications for the APIs that should exist.
>
> After we finish specifications, we can divide the work in chunks and
proceed to
> the implementation either individually or in groups.
>
> What does everybody think on this ?

In article <c640sa$lsh$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Achilleas Margaritis says...

[...]

> I suggest we
>organize ourselves and design the APIs and libraries which Digital Mars will approve as the official D APIs.

[...]

>After we finish specifications, we can divide the work in chunks and proceed to the implementation either individually or in groups.
>
>What does everybody think on this ?

It's the right way to do it.
It's not Walter's way of doing it.
Seems that Walter's and Matthew are now in (I instist) *secret*
conversations to come up with some thing for the DTL.

Can you change that?

Ant

"Ant" <Ant_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:c64279$o2e$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> In article <c640sa$lsh$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Achilleas Margaritis says...
>
> [...]
>
> > I suggest we
> >organize ourselves and design the APIs and libraries which Digital Mars
will
> >approve as the official D APIs.
>
> [...]
>
> >After we finish specifications, we can divide the work in chunks and
proceed to
> >the implementation either individually or in groups.
> >
> >What does everybody think on this ?
>
> It's the right way to do it.
> It's not Walter's way of doing it.
> Seems that Walter's and Matthew are now in (I instist) *secret*
> conversations to come up with some thing for the DTL.

It's not "secret", just "work in progress". Would you have us post sometimes several compiler updates a day on the newsgroup, of no benefit to anyone else?

AFAIK, Walter collaborates with others as well, as the need arises.

As for DTL, I am hoping for heaps of feedback on all kinds of aspects, once I've got the compiler support for the basic mechanisms I need.

Well, if anybody cares about APIs, let this thread be the start of it.

I am a newbie in this forum (although I read the newsgroup for a long time now), and I don't have the slightest idea on what DTL is.

Even if I did, who am I to change anything ? :-)

I am just fed up with programming languages that get in the way. D does not,
but it does not have the APIs. It's a shame to see Java win the programming language battle, since it is clearly inferior to D.

Of course, Sun has gazillions of programmers behind Java...

Ant wrote:
> In article <c640sa$lsh$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Achilleas Margaritis says...
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
>>I suggest we organize ourselves and design the APIs and libraries which Digital Mars will approve as the official D APIs.
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
>>After we finish specifications, we can divide the work in chunks and proceed to the implementation either individually or in groups.
>>
>>What does everybody think on this ?
> 
> 
> It's the right way to do it.
> It's not Walter's way of doing it.
> Seems that Walter's and Matthew are now in (I instist) *secret*
> conversations to come up with some thing for the DTL.
> 
> Can you change that?
> 
> Ant
> 
> 

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:27:08 +0300, Achilleas Margaritis wrote:

> Well, if anybody cares about APIs, let this thread be the start of it.
> 
> I am a newbie in this forum (although I read the newsgroup for a long time now), and I don't have the slightest idea on what DTL is.

I guess it stands for D template Library.

I don't know if you are old enough to know about
a language called C++.

The idea comes from the C++ Standard Template Library.

Ant
PS I seem to remember your name.
however say you're new to the group.
Did you post before here?

Matthew wrote:
> I am still of the same opinion as when Lars suggested this several months
> ago. (My post was "Re: D standard library group proposal", on the 4th Feb
> 2004. I don't know how to use the web interface to search, I'm afraid.)

I found your message: http://www.digitalmars.com/drn-bin/wwwnews?D/23166.

I think your points are as valid now as when you wrote it.


By the way, if you find the message in your newsreader, you can probably "View Source" or "View Headers" to find out the message number in 2 seconds. For example:

Path: digitalmars.com!not-for-mail
...
X-Complaints-To: usenet@digitalmars.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:31:42 +0000 (UTC)
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
Xref: digitalmars.com D:27944

The "Xref" in the last line of the header has the magic number. So the link to this example message is:
http://www.digitalmars.com/drn-bin/wwwnews?D/27944

Just in case you wanted to know...

-- 
Justin
http://jcc_7.tripod.com/d/

Actually, my and Achilleas suggestions are quite different. Where I
wanted to make a phobos group, Achilleas wants to standardize "all"
APIs, whether in phobos or not.

Lars Ivar Igesund

Matthew wrote:
> I am still of the same opinion as when Lars suggested this several months
> ago. (My post was "Re: D standard library group proposal", on the 4th Feb
> 2004. I don't know how to use the web interface to search, I'm afraid.)
> 
> 
> "Achilleas Margaritis" <axilmar@b-online.gr> wrote in message
> news:c640sa$lsh$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> 
>>It will be a real pity if D did not succeed as a programming language. In
> 
> order
> 
>>for it to succeed, it needs a good collection of APIs which cover the most
> 
> usual
> 
>>needs for writing applications.
>>
>>We are a lot of people in here that are interested about D. I suggest we
>>organize ourselves and design the APIs and libraries which Digital Mars
> 
> will
> 
>>approve as the official D APIs.
>>
>>I am saying all this because many people have individually started to code
>>libraries, especially GUIs. It would be a waste of resources for each one
> 
> of us
> 
>>to try individually, since APIs are a lot of work. Therefore, I suggest we
> 
> make
> 
>>some sort of 'committee', by whoever is willing to participate, and
> 
> produce a
> 
>>set of specifications for the APIs that should exist.
>>
>>After we finish specifications, we can divide the work in chunks and
> 
> proceed to
> 
>>the implementation either individually or in groups.
>>
>>What does everybody think on this ?
> 
> 
> 

Cool. Thanks for the info.

Lars/Achilleas/JC/anyone, does someone want to see if they can prize an opinion out of Walter on this one?

"J C Calvarese" <jcc7@cox.net> wrote in message news:c64ilb$1jhh$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Matthew wrote:
> > I am still of the same opinion as when Lars suggested this several months ago. (My post was "Re: D standard library group proposal", on the 4th Feb 2004. I don't know how to use the web interface to search, I'm afraid.)
>
> I found your message: http://www.digitalmars.com/drn-bin/wwwnews?D/23166.
>
> I think your points are as valid now as when you wrote it.
>
>
> By the way, if you find the message in your newsreader, you can probably "View Source" or "View Headers" to find out the message number in 2 seconds. For example:
>
> Path: digitalmars.com!not-for-mail
> ...
> X-Complaints-To: usenet@digitalmars.com
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:31:42 +0000 (UTC)
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
> Xref: digitalmars.com D:27944
>
> The "Xref" in the last line of the header has the magic number. So the link to this example message is: http://www.digitalmars.com/drn-bin/wwwnews?D/27944
>
> Just in case you wanted to know...
>
> -- 
> Justin
> http://jcc_7.tripod.com/d/

Oh, it did not cross my mind that DTL stands for the D Template Library.

Yes, I am old enough to remember C++!!! Hey, I work with C++ the last 7 years!!! :-)

I posted a few times before, yes.

It takes much more than a DTL, I am afraid.

Yesterday, I did a presentation of D to my colleagues. They were impressed by the language, but they all asked the same question:

"What can I do with it ?"

Come on guys, it's the APIs that count. We all know this...without APIs, D is doomed to failure.

Somebody will say that C++ did not fail, even if they were no APIs available. Well, that is half the truth. There are lots of C++ apps around, each one based on a specific toolkit provided either by the vendor of the O/S (WIN32/MFC, Motif) or by a third party (Qt, WxWindows, etc).

When these companies needed to use C++ in order to write big applications, there was nothing around so they invested and produced the toolkits mentioned above. But now the situation is different. D comes at a time that Java/.NET reigns supreme, and the C++ world is covered by the toolkits mentioned above.

That is why, in my opinion, D needs a uniform set of cross-platform high-quality APIs to begin with.

In article <pan.2004.04.20.22.57.02.785748@yahoo.ca>, Ant says...
>
>On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:27:08 +0300, Achilleas Margaritis wrote:
>
>> Well, if anybody cares about APIs, let this thread be the start of it.
>> 
>> I am a newbie in this forum (although I read the newsgroup for a long time now), and I don't have the slightest idea on what DTL is.
>
>I guess it stands for D template Library.
>
>I don't know if you are old enough to know about
>a language called C++.
>
>The idea comes from the C++ Standard Template Library.
>
>Ant
>PS I seem to remember your name.
>however say you're new to the group.
>Did you post before here?
>