On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 16:41:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I should have done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach Martin privately after evidence came about that he's alive and well, then discuss reasonable communication expectations with him, and only after that resume the public search for more release czars. I apologize to Martin and the community for not taking that course of action.
>
> We definitely need to move forward to having more release czars, which reduces the demands on each. I'll do my best to learn the ropes and document the process.
>
>
> Andrei

Amen.

On 06/18/2015 12:41 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>
> I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I should have
> done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach Martin privately after
> evidence came about that he's alive and well, then discuss reasonable
> communication expectations with him, and only after that resume the
> public search for more release czars. I apologize to Martin and the
> community for not taking that course of action.
>
> We definitely need to move forward to having more release czars, which
> reduces the demands on each. I'll do my best to learn the ropes and
> document the process.
>

I'm not sure I can commit to any guarantees, at least not on the level of a "primary release czar" anyway, but I'd be willing to pitch in when needed as a secondary or backup or such. I'd just need a better idea of what exactly the role entails. If you can document the process as you suggest here, that would be a big help.

On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 18:55:52 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> On 06/18/2015 12:41 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
>>[...]
>
> I'm not sure I can commit to any guarantees, at least not on the level of a "primary release czar" anyway, but I'd be willing to pitch in when needed as a secondary or backup or such. I'd just need a better idea of what exactly the role entails. If you can document the process as you suggest here, that would be a big help.

this, I'd be happy to help with smaller tasks. Maybe expecting one or two people to do the entire process is too much.

On 18 June 2015 at 16:43, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d < digitalmars-d@puremagic.com> wrote:

> Thanks all for the feedback; a follow up is in order seeing as there are a few misunderstandings of the situation.
>
> First off, framing this matter as impinging on someone's vacation is a misinterpretation. Taking time off has nothing to do with it - anyone should. Just Walter, myself, the "This Week in D" author, and the release manager please let us know so things can be planned accordingly.
>
> To thrive, we need to expand the inner circle of folks who are closely involved with D to the extent the community knows why they're missing when they're missing. Currently that circle includes only Walter and myself; if either of us would go dark for weeks without the other (and others) knowing, that'd be worrisome.
>
> To wit, I wrote this to Martin and Walter on May 31st:
>
> ====
> Today is May 31st, so we're entering the last month of H1. I'd like to get
> an early start on updating the vision document, and before creating yet
> another rambling thread on the forum I thought we should start between the
> three of us.
>
> What do you guys think would be the main points to attack in H2? Martin,
> it's particularly important to hear from you.
> ====
>
> I hope it's clearer that it was quite unsettling to not hear back about that or anything else.
>
> Regarding the volunteer vs. paid employee aspect - clearly that's a problem. All I can do now is work on the foundation and hope to find sponsors that would allow us to pay the release manager, the keeper of "This Week in D" and others.
>
> About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I could think of.
>
> Building the process is a difficult and very important job. It stands to reason, then, that we need several folks who can do it and cover contingencies. Martin and I are in talks about building this release together; it would be great if we could get a broader participation.
>
> There's one more note of interest:
>
>  This is off-putting for me as someone who is getting steadily more
>> involved in D, what other implicit contracts do you think we've all signed?
>>
>
> None, of course. Far as I can tell the dynamics are as follows:
>
> * Walter and I can be counted on being around barring announced absences or exceptional circumstances.
>
> * Adam D. Ruppe, Walter, and I discussed that there will be consistency of "This Week in D". Announced outages are fine, "I'll do it when/if I get to it" is not.
>
> * The release managers should be counted on for planning and reliably carrying the release. I am now sorry I wasn't clearer about that.
>
> * There are a few folks with particularly important roles: Iain (GDC), Kai
> (LDC), Brad (autotester), and Vladimir (forum and a variety of tools). If
> any of these would suddenly leave, the community would be in difficulty.
> They work independently and I wish we found ways to pay them and coordinate
> better with them, but there is no implied or express expectation.
>
>
>
Not just GDC, but the whole GNU toolchain support for D too.

Iain

On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 16:15:37 UTC, Mike wrote:
> On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:
>
>> I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? I know nightly builds have been discussed for years, and it would be great to take advantage of the multi-platform infrastructure of the current autotester for it, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
>
> In addition, I recommend taking a look at, providing feedback, and futhering the development of reggae [1] [2] [3] [4].
>
> [1] Repository - https://github.com/atilaneves/reggae
> [2] Initial Post - http://forum.dlang.org/post/ranqlmrjornlvopsuris@forum.dlang.org
> [3] Phobos Test - http://forum.dlang.org/post/kjbmzcnhhzlimfkjcsan@forum.dlang.org
> [4] Further Enhancements - http://forum.dlang.org/post/znaffgxodfpnjwggpwok@forum.dlang.org
>
> In D, we have this extremely powerful, expressive, and even beautiful language for describing and automating the most complex of processes, yet we resort to headaches like makefiles to automate our own work.  It's seems asinine.  I threw away make as soon as I discovered rdmd.  No makefiles, no json, no new file format to learn, no new syntax to learn, no new tool to learn, no external platform-specific dependencies;  just the one tool we know and love: the D programming language.
>
> If we want more D progrmmers involved in the building, verification, and packaging of our core tools, let's do it in D.

I'm going to carry on trying to convert posix.mak to a D description in reggae on a branch of my phobos clone, basically a continuation of [2] above.

The idea is to replicate the exact behaviour and targets, submit a pull request to add the reggaefile.d file and have people try it out and see how they like it.

I'd do the Windows makefiles too but there's a dmd bug preventing reggae from compiling at all on that platform. I might fix the bug myself.

In the meanwhile I'm busy enough with std.experimental.testing. Nevermind "life", "girlfriend" and that really annoying timesink called "job".

Atila

On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:45:26 +0000, Etienne wrote:

> My point is, we need to be able to extend it to build and link an application with a custom druntime/phobos/dmd version from source.

exactly what you can do with Reggae. now Reggae needs a good package manager, which dub isn't.

On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:40:21 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

> On 06/18/2015 10:30 AM, ketmar wrote:
>>
>> i never talked about binaries. what i'm talking about is that dub is not a package manager at all.
>>
>> how can i get a list of available packages? how can i search by package name or in package descriptions? using web site is not an option, that functionality should be built-in.
> 
> Those sound like excellent ideas for new pull requests. https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dub/compare

sadly, i can't PR on web API, as i don't have mongodb, and i know nothing about it (except "i don't want to know more about it" ;-). so the only real thing i can do is to be irritatingly vocal about that features, in the hope that someone will write 'em.

On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:34:43 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

> On 06/18/2015 07:14 AM, ketmar wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:21:10 +0000, IgorStepanov wrote:
>>
>>> This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet.
>>
>> we shouldn't hate them. they are poor people that simply can't see The Light yet. but even php coder can become a programmer. and programmer can become D programmer.
>>
>>
> It was a joke.

i was joking too. ah, the constant problem with my jokes: nobody gets 'em.

On 06/18/2015 05:13 PM, ketmar wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:34:43 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>
>> On 06/18/2015 07:14 AM, ketmar wrote:
>>> On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:21:10 +0000, IgorStepanov wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of
>>>> intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet.
>>>
>>> we shouldn't hate them. they are poor people that simply can't see The
>>> Light yet. but even php coder can become a programmer. and programmer
>>> can become D programmer.
>>>
>>>
>> It was a joke.
>
> i was joking too. ah, the constant problem with my jokes: nobody gets 'em.
>

The joke's on me. :) Didn't read it closely enough!

On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 20:41:44 +0000, Atila Neves wrote:

> I'm going to carry on trying to convert posix.mak to a D description in reggae on a branch of my phobos clone, basically a continuation of [2] above.
> 
> The idea is to replicate the exact behaviour and targets, submit a pull request to add the reggaefile.d file and have people try it out and see how they like it.

i'm already like it! ;-)