Am 09.11.2013 21:27, schrieb deadalnix:
> On Saturday, 9 November 2013 at 10:32:26 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
>> Am 09.11.2013 08:50, schrieb Raphaël Jakse:
>>> Le 09/11/2013 07:43, Philippe Sigaud a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    On Friday, November 08, 2013 20:16:44 Timothee Cour wrote:
>>>>     > french as well (although living in US).
>>>>     > A great start would be lobbying so that they teach D in French
>>>>    Engineering
>>>>     > schools ... instead of ocaml.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did they teach you ocaml? I had C, with maybe a dash of C++.
>>>
>>> I've been taught OCaml (to introduce functional programming) and C at
>>> the university. No C++, but ADA. Java is also taught.
>>>
>>
>> Actually I find very positive that people get introduced to ML family
>> of languages.
>>
>> It is a nice way to learn functional programming.
>>
>> My university had a strong focus in ML (Caml Light back then) and
>> Prolog as well, so I have beed brain damaged since mid 90's always
>> looking forward to using those concepts in the industry. :)
>>
>> --
>> Paulo
>
> I went throws OCaml when studying. It has to be noted that I already
> know several languages by myself at this point.
>
> I do agree that learning OCaml is a really good thing, but the way it
> has been done to me wasn't that profitable. The fact is that teachers
> didn't knew much about functional programming, how it differs from other
> paradigms, the pro and cons. Nothing of that was discussed, so all
> student that knew some programming, but not functional were left
> wondering what is that shit were i can't update the value of a variable.
>
> I has to learn why this is good much later and by myself. I'm pretty
> sure most people see it as the weird and useless language we learn in
> the beginning of our studies.
>
> Many school are switching back to C.

I see, we had quite a good selection of languages in the university.

The university had standard Pascal, C, C++, Caml Light, Prolog, Java
for project assignments, besides the overview of many others in history of programming languages and compiler design lectures.

Caml Light was used mostly in the lectures about lambda calculus, language design.

However, for the implementation of a real compiler, we were required to use Java with JavaCC, because using functional/logic languages would make the task too easy for us. :)

--
Paulo

On Friday, 8 November 2013 at 22:57:55 UTC, eles wrote:
> On Friday, 8 November 2013 at 21:44:50 UTC, Théo B wrote:
>> On Friday, 8 November 2013 at 20:57:21 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
>>> It's a great thing you're doing creating a french language D site. You'll need to do some regular promotion of it (not just a single posting, here).
>>
>> Thank you :). In fact I hopped that there was some french-speaking users here
>
> Moi.

Moi aussi.

On Saturday, 9 November 2013 at 10:13:42 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>> The French translation for template is "modèle", I think I'll use this one. I'm okay with also giving the English "template" in my translation, but not use it (If somebody disagrees, I'm open to talk)
>
> It sounds strange to translate a keyword. If I put it like this, it would be ok to translate a keyword when talking about it like a topic, i.e. a chapter called "Templates" (Modèle). But when referring to the actual keyword, what one need to write in the code, it seems wrong to translate it. So if you would write something like this:
>
> Templates are ... and the keyword used is "template".

Most of the time, templates are translated as "templates". I think it is better not to add an additional cognitive indirection by translating the keyword.

The worst translation I ever saw for templates in a french C++ book was "patron". It took me a few seconds to realize what it was refering to.

Le 10/11/2013 09:31, Olivier Pisano a écrit :
> Most of the time, templates are translated as "templates". I think it is
> better not to add an additional cognitive indirection by translating the
> keyword.
>
> The worst translation I ever saw for templates in a french C++ book was
> "patron". It took me a few seconds to realize what it was refering to.

I agree for "patron", which is mostly for geometry and can be confused with the concept of "pattern", which might be even more abstract.


The additional indirection is true for people who already know the concept and who read a tutorial which didn't translate the word the first time they learned the concept.

When I first saw "template", It meant nothing for me because I didn't know the English word. With a French word, I could have understood more easily (at least, I would not have been blocked by an unknown English word).

Realizing what the French word refers to for people who already now the concept can be eased by introducing the English word at the same time.
What these people will have to do when reading the chapter is to remember that e.g. "modèle" refers to "template". It is more work, but the additional work is not really a problem as they already know the concept. On the other hand, people who don't know the concept won't have the additional work to block on an unknown English word or to translate it. Anyway, the 'template' keyword will appear anywhere in the chapter so the English word will be there.

On 09/11/13 19:32, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> You know, it always feels funny to see or type Switzerland, because I'm so
> used to Suisse (which is also easier to remember how to spell).

Yea, I often get the same feeling, though more often with city names than countries (it's something to do with how much one has used one name compared to others).

I don't know what denomination your missionary work was on behalf of, but I do remember there being a noticeable US missionary presence during that time in Fribourg.  So even if we never overlapped, I may have met some of your colleagues :-)

On 2013-11-09 21:08, SomeDude wrote:

> And modèle isn't even a widely accepted translation. I have seen the
> word patron in books. That one is even less agreed upon than modèle, and
> my french C++ programmers commonly use template.
>
> Another option is to use the adjective générique. But you then need to
> join it to a name, like classe, or méthode, or fonction.

That sounds like generics. Templates is one way to implement generics.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

Le 09/11/2013 21:08, SomeDude a écrit :
> On Saturday, 9 November 2013 at 10:47:45 UTC, Raphaël Jakse wrote:
>>
>> For templates, the English word is so widespread and "Modèle" (maybe
>> also "template") is such an abstract word that putting the English
>> word in the title seems necessary and useful and that could ease
>> comprehension and searches in the tutorial :-)
>>
>
> And modèle isn't even a widely accepted translation. I have seen the
> word patron in books. That one is even less agreed upon than modèle, and
> my french C++ programmers commonly use template.
>
> Another option is to use the adjective générique. But you then need to
> join it to a name, like classe, or méthode, or fonction.

I like this. This is to be considered.

On 2013-11-10 03:22:14 +0000, "deadalnix" <deadalnix@gmail.com> said:

> On Saturday, 9 November 2013 at 12:02:17 UTC, Michel Fortin wrote:
>> Wouldn't it be better to concentrate efforts on making the official D site and the forum interface multilingual? (and also incidentally add a French forum here?) Then this system can be expanded to other languages easily.
> 
> The french translation of the site is hillarious right now. The translator understand "native" as in native american. You must try it is you understand some french.

I tried it. It's a useless gimmick. I've said so many years ago. I'd actually find it rather embarrassing to have a widget like this on my own site because I'd feel like I was giving some endorsement that totally ridiculous and for the most part unhelpful translation. That's definitely not what I want to see when I say the site should be multilingual.

The site should allow human translators to translate the content and make that translated content available to visitors (with a widget similar to the google one, or a menu on the side like on Wikipedia). That's not unlike what the PHP Manual is doing:
http://www.php.net/manual/en/pdostatement.fetch.php
http://www.php.net/manual/fr/pdostatement.fetch.php
http://www.php.net/manual/zh/pdostatement.fetch.php
http://www.php.net/manual/ja/pdostatement.fetch.php

Of course then you need people translating the content. But that won't come before there's some means to put these translations online as part of the site build process.

And finally the web forum should also allow the user to select its user interface language, and there should be a forum dedicated to discussions in French (and possibly others for other languages).

At least that's the way I'd make things welcoming for non-english speakers.

-- 
Michel Fortin
michel.fortin@michelf.ca
http://michelf.ca

On 11/09/2013 04:02 AM, Michel Fortin wrote:

> Also, make sure you have a published lexicon for translated terms every
> one can base upon.

+1 Here is mine:

  http://ddili.org/sozluk.html

Ali

On 11/09/2013 05:41 AM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
> On 09/11/13 14:29, "Théo.B" <munrek@gmx.com>"@puremagic.com wrote:
>>> Tu parles l'anglais comme une indigène.  C'est à nous anglophones de
>>> nous
>>> excuser pour le français terrible! ;-)
>>
>> I'm not sure what do you mean :'/
>
> My point in a nutshell. :-)
>

Prizeless! ;)

Ali