View mode: basic / threaded / horizontal-split · Log in · Help
October 11, 2009
Re: dmd support for IDEs
"language_fan" <foo@bar.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:hasd5u$1fgu$1@digitalmars.com...
>
> Well since there is already a project working on an Eclipse plugin, I see
> little use for other IDEs at the moment. The D community is rather small
> and only a small amount of people are capable of developing and willing
> to donate their free time on free IDE development (commercial IDEs have
> small potential now that Netbeans/Eclipse/IntelliJ/KDevelop/Visual Studio
> dominate the market). So why not concentrate on fixing the spec and
> fixing compiler bugs instead of building a modest IDE support no one will
> use?

Any editor that is less responsive than notepad is useless to me, and I'm 
far from alone on that. Thus, we don't go anywhere near Eclipse, VS.NET, or 
anything along those lines (bunch of bloated garbage...and probably designed 
to get developers to buy fancier hardware and thus end up develop apps that 
require their users to buy fancier hardware).
October 11, 2009
Re: dmd support for IDEs
Leandro Lucarella wrote:
> Walter Bright, el 11 de octubre a las 02:38 me escribiste:
>> Lutger wrote:
>>> What about file/line/column of the symbol? Is this much work /
>>> hard work to add?
>> file/line of course, but I don't see a point to column.
> 
> See Clang error messages:
> http://clang.llvm.org/diagnostics.html
> 
> That's *nice* =)
> 

I agree, it looks good on paper.

In fact, I implemented it in the C and C++ compiler from the beginning 
(1982 or so). It's still in dmc, try it - it'll print out the error 
message, followed by the source text of the offending line, followed by 
a ^ under where things went wrong.

Nobody cared.

Nobody has ever commented on it - and there have been hundreds of 
thousands of users of it. No magazine review ever mentioned it. When I 
mention it to people as "cool, look at this" they never respond. When 
the conversation is about the quality of error messages, that feature 
never comes up.

So I dropped it for dmd.

Nobody noticed.

Nobody asked why it was done for dmc, and not for dmd. Nobody asked for 
it. Nothing. (Until now.)

So I am hard pressed to believe this is a worthwhile feature. There is a 
cost to it in memory consumption and compiler execution time, so it's 
not quite free.
October 11, 2009
Re: dmd support for IDEs
"Walter Bright" <newshound1@digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:hatc8c$277u$1@digitalmars.com...
> Ary Borenszweig wrote:
>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>> Denis Koroskin wrote:
>>>> In fact, that's what I do right now.
>>>
>>> I think that's great. But it requires a lot of work (as of course you 
>>> know).
>>
>> Good things require a lot of work. :)
>
> Of course. But getting something done and available in a short amount of 
> time is also good!
>
> For example, some people say to me "why should I use D, when C++0x solves 
> my issues with C++?"
>
> And I point out "how many more years are you willing to wait for C++0x, 
> when D is here now?"
>
> [Setting aside for the moment the issue of whether C++0x really is better 
> than D or not!]
>
> The point is, good enough now gets us further down the road of getting a 
> user base large enough to justify the effort for a more comprehensive 
> solution.
>
> For example, if I have many miles to commute to work, the best choice is a 
> car. But if I can't afford a car, or am too young to drive, a bike at 
> least gets me there. Before I was 16 and could drive, a bike was very 
> liberating for me, I rode it everywhere.

It's a good point, but, if I'm reading this group right, it sounds like it 
might not be quite as useful as you're expecting it would be.
October 11, 2009
Re: dmd support for IDEs
Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> On 10/11/09 15:23, Ary Borenszweig wrote:
>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>> In my discussions with companies about adopting D, the major barrier
>>> that comes up over and over isn't Tango vs Phobos, dmd being GPL,
>>> debugger support, libraries, bugs, etc., although those are important.
>>>
>>> It's the IDE.
>>>
>>> So, while I'm not going to be writing an IDE, I figure that dmd can
>>> help. dmd already puts out .doc and .di files. How about putting out
>>> an xml file giving all the information needed for an IDE to implement
>>> autocompletion? There'd be one .xml file generated per .d source file.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>
>> So... my opinion (like some others, I see) is to either ask things to
>> the compiler directly (but here the compiler lacks some info, like exact
>> source range positions), or to have a compiler (not a full-blown one,
>> just the front-end) built into the IDE, and that's what Descent is.
>> Unfortunately Descent is sometimes slow, sometimes buggy, but that's
>> normal: just a few people develop and maintain it (so I can see a
>> similarity with dmd here, where each day I see two or three new bugs
>> reported). If more people were into it, more unit tests were written
>> into it and, most of all, more people would use it, it'll get better.
> 
> I use it almost at a daily base and it works great. I can't remember the 
> last time it cashed.

Wow, that's good news! :)
October 11, 2009
Re: dmd support for IDEs
Jacob Carlborg wrote:
...
> As far as I know neither Qt(d) or gtkD uses native controls on platforms
> other than linux, which to me is unacceptable. The look especially on mac.

Qt used to try and look like native controls, but now it uses them directly.
October 11, 2009
Re: dmd support for IDEs
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:04:50 -0400, Christopher Wright wrote:

> Jeremie Pelletier wrote:
>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>> But if you want to contribute, how about a JSON parser for phobos?
>>> You'll need one anyway for your IDE.
>>>
>>> BTW, JSON parsing comes for free with javascript. Why not incorporate
>>> dmdscript into your IDE as its extension language?
>> 
>> The official JSON website has tons of bindings, here's the C one:
>> 
>> http://fara.cs.uni-potsdam.de/~jsg/json_parser/
>> 
>> I'm gonna try and get it converted to D over the weekend.
> 
> Tango already has a good JSON parser, but I imagine its license (BSD)
> doesn't meet Walter's requirements.

I wrote a JSON parser that is Public Domain and also very fast.
It may be helpful. 
http://dsource.org/projects/tango/ticket/1491

There are also a few others around.
October 11, 2009
Re: dmd support for IDEs
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 21:25:57 +0000, Moritz Warning wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:04:50 -0400, Christopher Wright wrote:
> 
>> Jeremie Pelletier wrote:
>>> Walter Bright wrote:
>>>> But if you want to contribute, how about a JSON parser for phobos?
>>>> You'll need one anyway for your IDE.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, JSON parsing comes for free with javascript. Why not incorporate
>>>> dmdscript into your IDE as its extension language?
>>> 
>>> The official JSON website has tons of bindings, here's the C one:
>>> 
>>> http://fara.cs.uni-potsdam.de/~jsg/json_parser/
>>> 
>>> I'm gonna try and get it converted to D over the weekend.
>> 
>> Tango already has a good JSON parser, but I imagine its license (BSD)
>> doesn't meet Walter's requirements.
> 
> I wrote a JSON parser that is Public Domain and also very fast. It may
> be helpful.
> http://dsource.org/projects/tango/ticket/1491
> 
> There are also a few others around.

Uh, it says BSD. But I'm fine with PB.
October 11, 2009
Re: dmd support for IDEs
Michel Fortin wrote:
> Indeed. And it may be a perfect fit for other tools such as a 
> documentation system that can do cross-references across modules, or... 
> hum perhaps even runtime reflection? :-)

It's one of those things where there may be a lot of unanticipated uses 
for it!
October 11, 2009
Re: dmd support for IDEs
Moritz Warning wrote:
> I wrote a JSON parser that is Public Domain and also very fast.
> It may be helpful. 
> http://dsource.org/projects/tango/ticket/1491


You need to get this added to the list at http://json.org/
October 11, 2009
Re: dmd support for IDEs
Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> It's a good point, but, if I'm reading this group right, it sounds like it 
> might not be quite as useful as you're expecting it would be.

Yes, I can see that.
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Top | Discussion index | About this forum | D home