August 02, 2011
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 5:45 PM, Jacob Carlborg <doob@me.com> wrote:
> On 2011-08-01 23:35, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>
>> "Johann MacDonagh"<johann.macdonagh.no@spam.gmail.com>  wrote in message news:j1501g$tbs$1@digitalmars.com...
>>>
>>> 1. Database interface. Should support sqlite, mysql, postgres, etc... 3. Some kind of web framework.
>>
>> Agreed, but fortunately Adam's stuff for that is shaping up nicely:
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/adamdruppe/misc-stuff-including-D-programming-language-web-stuff
>>
>>> 2. DWT fixed up and merged into Phobos.
>>
>> That'd certainly be nice.
>
> That would be an enormous addition (in code) to Phobos. I would guess that the code base of DWT, for just one platform, is larger than the whole Phobos.
>
> --
> /Jacob Carlborg
>

Not sure what point adding these kinds of things to phobos would serve.

As far as I can see it all you're going to do is discourage alternative implementations and encourage people to code before thinking about their own requirements.

And for that you've made phobos significantly larger and harder to maintain.
August 02, 2011
Am 02.08.2011, 17:35 Uhr, schrieb Jimmy Cao <jcao219@gmail.com>:

> 2011/8/2 so <so@so.so>
>
>> On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 03:51:56 +0300, Brad Roberts <
>> braddr@slice-2.puremagic.com> wrote:
>>
>>  I don't think that any gui library belongs in phobos because there's
>>> essentially no agreement about what cross-platform library is standard.
>>> Pick any random 10 gui developers about what library they used (assuming
>>> they do anything cross-platform) and you'll get more than 1 answer.  I'd
>>> be shocked if you get a clear enough majority to suggest 1 that'd make a
>>> big set of people happy.
>>>
>>> Sorry, the gui library landscape just doesn't approach being obvious
>>> enough to be in the standard library.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents,
>>> Brad
>>>
>>>
>> I agree, GUIs (and other huge libraries that everyone has their own
>> favorite) don't belong standard library. Other languages get away with it
>> because they are either platform themselves or support only one platform.
>> Another reason not to include them to the standard library, remember phobos
>> has rules (we might need to change many things).
>> But if we have something small, simple and cross-platform somewhere, why
>> not!
>>
>
> If a GUI library were included in Phobos, that would make D a much better
> competitor against C#.  That's why I hope such an inclusion would be
> possible in the future.  I see why it might not be possible, though.

Why is it so important that the GUI library is included in the std library? Unless it is like Delphi, VisualBasic & others that it comes with a GUI designer and an IDE I personally find it ok to look for the best library for your project on the internet (small Windows-only, cross-platform, ...) :)
August 02, 2011
Am 02.08.2011, 17:38 Uhr, schrieb so <so@so.so>:

> On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 06:10:29 +0300, bearophile <bearophileHUGS@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>> - I'd also like a std.image module to load and save images in png, gif, jpeg, ppm, bmp. This is a very common need, even more common than a GUI toolkit, and there are far less ways to load a PNG than to create the API of a GUI toolkit.
>
> Wrapper over http://nothings.org/stb_image.c and no license issue.
> Sean Barrett wouldn't mind Boost i think.
> Though i am not sure it serves the general needs.

Are you serious?! :
"   QUICK NOTES:
      Primarily of interest to game developers and other people who can
          avoid problematic images and only need the trivial interface

      JPEG baseline (no JPEG progressive)
      PNG 8-bit only
      [...]
"

I don't mind missing support for exotic varieties like um... RGB JPEG, but I think this file lacks too much support to be 'standard'. It fits well for what is described in the notes though.
August 02, 2011
On 2011-07-31 07:27, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
> I think that it would be useful to query the community for what piece of
> library functionality they don't currently have in D and would most like to
> see. For instance, there is no official logging framework in D or any 3rd party
> libraries which do it AFAIK. So, that could be one type of functionality that
> you may like to see. Now, there is a prospective implementation for std.log
> which shouldn't be all that far away from being reviewed, so listing that here
> wouldn't be all that useful, since it's on its way. But what other major
> functionality do you miss in D that other languages' that you use have
> available in their libraries?
>
> My hope here would be that we could get some good ideas going here such that
> we have can have a better idea what type of functionality it would be
> particularly useful to be working on for Phobos or 3rd party D libraries for
> the community, and maybe it'll even get some people to actually go and work on
> these ideas so that we can improve the libraries that we have to work with in
> D. We can always use more help, and we definitely need a richer library
> ecosystem for D. But even just discussing ideas could be of benefit.
>
> So, what major functionality which we don't currently have would you like to
> see in either Phobos or in a 3rd party library so that you could use it in
> your D programs?
>
> - Jonathan M Davis

Some kind of console library to easy handle input from a user, displaying progress bars, outputting text in different colors and similar.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
August 02, 2011
On 8/2/11 10:25 AM, so wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 03:51:56 +0300, Brad Roberts
> <braddr@slice-2.puremagic.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't think that any gui library belongs in phobos because there's
>> essentially no agreement about what cross-platform library is standard.
>> Pick any random 10 gui developers about what library they used (assuming
>> they do anything cross-platform) and you'll get more than 1 answer. I'd
>> be shocked if you get a clear enough majority to suggest 1 that'd make a
>> big set of people happy.
>>
>> Sorry, the gui library landscape just doesn't approach being obvious
>> enough to be in the standard library.
>>
>> My 2 cents,
>> Brad
>>
>
> I agree, GUIs (and other huge libraries that everyone has their own
> favorite) don't belong standard library. Other languages get away with
> it because they are either platform themselves or support only one
> platform.
> Another reason not to include them to the standard library, remember
> phobos has rules (we might need to change many things).
> But if we have something small, simple and cross-platform somewhere, why
> not!

I think a small and simple GUI would be the worst of all worlds.

Andrei
August 02, 2011
On 02-08-2011 18:44, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
> On 2011-07-31 07:27, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
>> I think that it would be useful to query the community for what piece of
>> library functionality they don't currently have in D and would most
>> like to
>> see. For instance, there is no official logging framework in D or any
>> 3rd party
>> libraries which do it AFAIK. So, that could be one type of
>> functionality that
>> you may like to see. Now, there is a prospective implementation for
>> std.log
>> which shouldn't be all that far away from being reviewed, so listing
>> that here
>> wouldn't be all that useful, since it's on its way. But what other major
>> functionality do you miss in D that other languages' that you use have
>> available in their libraries?
>>
>> My hope here would be that we could get some good ideas going here
>> such that
>> we have can have a better idea what type of functionality it would be
>> particularly useful to be working on for Phobos or 3rd party D
>> libraries for
>> the community, and maybe it'll even get some people to actually go and
>> work on
>> these ideas so that we can improve the libraries that we have to work
>> with in
>> D. We can always use more help, and we definitely need a richer library
>> ecosystem for D. But even just discussing ideas could be of benefit.
>>
>> So, what major functionality which we don't currently have would you
>> like to
>> see in either Phobos or in a 3rd party library so that you could use
>> it in
>> your D programs?
>>
>> - Jonathan M Davis
>
> Some kind of console library to easy handle input from a user,
> displaying progress bars, outputting text in different colors and similar.
>
Perhaps a curses binding of some sort?

- Alex
August 02, 2011
On 2011-08-02 19:45, Alex Rønne Petersen wrote:
> On 02-08-2011 18:44, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>> Some kind of console library to easy handle input from a user,
>> displaying progress bars, outputting text in different colors and
>> similar.
>>
> Perhaps a curses binding of some sort?
>
> - Alex

Something like that.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
August 02, 2011
On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Marco Leise <Marco.Leise@gmx.de> wrote:

> Am 02.08.2011, 17:35 Uhr, schrieb Jimmy Cao <jcao219@gmail.com>:
>
>  2011/8/2 so <so@so.so>
>>
>>  On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 03:51:56 +0300, Brad Roberts <
>>> braddr@slice-2.puremagic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  I don't think that any gui library belongs in phobos because there's
>>>
>>>> essentially no agreement about what cross-platform library is standard. Pick any random 10 gui developers about what library they used (assuming they do anything cross-platform) and you'll get more than 1 answer.  I'd be shocked if you get a clear enough majority to suggest 1 that'd make a big set of people happy.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, the gui library landscape just doesn't approach being obvious enough to be in the standard library.
>>>>
>>>> My 2 cents,
>>>> Brad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  I agree, GUIs (and other huge libraries that everyone has their own
>>> favorite) don't belong standard library. Other languages get away with it
>>> because they are either platform themselves or support only one platform.
>>> Another reason not to include them to the standard library, remember
>>> phobos
>>> has rules (we might need to change many things).
>>> But if we have something small, simple and cross-platform somewhere, why
>>> not!
>>>
>>>
>> If a GUI library were included in Phobos, that would make D a much better competitor against C#.  That's why I hope such an inclusion would be possible in the future.  I see why it might not be possible, though.
>>
>
> Why is it so important that the GUI library is included in the std library? Unless it is like Delphi, VisualBasic & others that it comes with a GUI designer and an IDE I personally find it ok to look for the best library for your project on the internet (small Windows-only, cross-platform, ...) :)
>


You're right, it's probably not that important.
I guess it's most important that a cross-platform GUI library can simply be
easily installed and set up (with some sort of D package manager).


August 02, 2011
Plus that would tie any updates to the GUI with DMD releases. Bad idea!
August 02, 2011
Jonathan M Davis Wrote:

> I think that it would be useful to query the community for what piece of library functionality they don't currently have in D and would most like to see. For instance, there is no official logging framework in D or any 3rd party libraries which do it AFAIK. So, that could be one type of functionality that you may like to see. Now, there is a prospective implementation for std.log which shouldn't be all that far away from being reviewed, so listing that here wouldn't be all that useful, since it's on its way. But what other major functionality do you miss in D that other languages' that you use have available in their libraries?
> 
> My hope here would be that we could get some good ideas going here such that we have can have a better idea what type of functionality it would be particularly useful to be working on for Phobos or 3rd party D libraries for the community, and maybe it'll even get some people to actually go and work on these ideas so that we can improve the libraries that we have to work with in D. We can always use more help, and we definitely need a richer library ecosystem for D. But even just discussing ideas could be of benefit.
> 
> So, what major functionality which we don't currently have would you like to see in either Phobos or in a 3rd party library so that you could use it in your D programs?
> 
> - Jonathan M Davis

I'm nearing completion on an arbitrary-precision floating point library, along with implementations of decimal32, decimal64 and decimal128 structs.

Paul