December 14, 2011
On 2011-12-14 19:08, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 12/14/2011 2:49 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>> On 2011-12-14 11:29, Walter Bright wrote:
>>> On 12/14/2011 2:24 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>>>> I don't know, it's more about in what state D2 and Phobos is and what
>>>> changes D1
>>>> will get before the support ends. I'm thinking mostly of dynamic
>>>> libraries.
>>>
>>> It's likely D1 and D2 will get dynamic libraries at the same time,
>>> because it's mostly a backend issue.
>>
>> I thought it was mostly a runtime issue. I managed to implement it for
>> Tango
>> without any changes to the compiler.
>
> It couldn't be, because there was a serious omission in the -fPIC code
> generation fixed in 2.057.

Yeah, sorry, I'm mostly thinking of Mac OS X where PIC is the default.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
December 14, 2011
On 2011-12-14 19:11, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 12/14/2011 3:06 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>>>> I added patches to a few bugzilla issues as well. But they are long
>>>> outdated by
>>>> now (the patches that is).
>>>
>>> I'd appreciate if they were submitted as pull requests.
>>
>> Yes, they were added a long time ago, before the move to github.
>
> I understand that, but can you please do one of these:
>
> 1. give me a list of bugzilla numbers
>
> 2. resubmit them as git pull requests (the advantage here is that the
> "audit trail" giving you credit will be intact)

I'll do that when I find the time. Thanks.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
December 14, 2011
On 2011-12-14 19:13, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 12/14/2011 3:06 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
>> I'm not suggesting that you would know everything but at least that we
>> could
>> agree what we want to do about TLS and dynamic libraries on Mac OS X.
>>
>> 1. Should we stick with the TLS implementation we have and wait for 10.8
>> 1.A. Does this mean 10.6 will not be supported in the future
>> 1.B. Will we be able to solve the TLS issues with dynamic libraries
>> with the
>> current implementation
>>
>> 2. Should we try to emulate the 10.7 implementation our self to
>> support 10.6 as
>> well and at the same time be forward compatible
>>
>> I would hope that these are question we could try to figure out and
>> agree upon.
>
> The answer is:
>
> I don't know enough about it to pick the right solution.

Fair enough.

> In the future, however, I think it is clear we should not be rolling our
> own solution - we should be compatible with whatever gcc does.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. That would mean either option 2 or wait for 10.8.

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
December 14, 2011
On 12/14/11, torhu <no@spam.invalid> wrote:
> DWT for D2 is not in a usable state yet.

It has a few build issues but most samples work. I've never used it for any projects yet though.
December 14, 2011
On 14.12.2011 22:26, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
> On 12/14/11, torhu<no@spam.invalid>  wrote:
>>  DWT for D2 is not in a usable state yet.
>
> It has a few build issues but most samples work. I've never used it
> for any projects yet though.

It doesn't work for much besides the samples.
December 14, 2011
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 03:48:57 -0600
Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail@erdani.org> wrote:

> How long?
> 
> Andrei
> 

Could it may be taken as a planned discontinuation where it can be re-evaluated at that time with the expectation that D2 will be ready at that time (hopefully with 6 months to spare). To me it feels more like a goal to get D2 suitable for those currently on D1.

GDC and LDC can of course make their own path.
December 15, 2011
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 10:46:18 +0100
Gour <gour@atmarama.net> wrote:

> Can you give me a list of some successful open-source projects written in D1 and/or some proprietary ones?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/18600/?snr=1_200_200_254_13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABA_Games
December 15, 2011
Jesse Phillips Wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 10:46:18 +0100
> Gour <gour@atmarama.net> wrote:
> 
> > Can you give me a list of some successful open-source projects written in D1 and/or some proprietary ones?
> 
> http://store.steampowered.com/app/18600/?snr=1_200_200_254_13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABA_Games

http://blissradius.com/
December 15, 2011
On Wednesday, 14 December 2011 at 18:55:23 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 12/14/2011 10:28 AM, Jakob Bornecrantz wrote:
>>> I don't know where the D1 community is, or even if it exists anymore.
>>
>> I'm here!
>
> Thanks for speaking up.

np.

>> Anyways couldn't you just do releases less often or only when there is something to release? Like every other D2 release to
>> lessen the burden?
>
> Can I turn that around and ask what issues there are with migrating your code base to D2?

In short it can be answered with the questions "Can you
guarantee it work?" and "Can I justify the amount of work I have
to put in for the gain?", the thing is I have a had a lot of
problems with D1 toolchain, I have fixed or worked around these
issues and I'm wondering if I have to work around those or other
again. I am currently supporting 3 platforms (Mac, Linux &
Windows), so that factors in as well (me having fixed some
issues on Mac for D1).

My current code base is 40Kloc's where about 8Kloc of those
are library bindings, on top of that it also includes a couple
of C projects sources (expat, lua and some other misc
libraries). So I would have to convert all that code to D2 and
also fix any issues that might arise from that conversion.
That said I think that it would mostly running the code
through dmd2 and just fix any cases where it complains. But it
probably wouldn't be a trivial amount of work.

I don't use Phobos that much in my code so I wont have to
change much code with that regards, then again I don't see much
value of the new Phobos since there isn't much new there for me.
In fact I sort of have a philosophical disagreement with the
boost/templet-ification of it and the language in general.

Also in the beginning when I was using D1 and it moved much
more faster I would often find myself having to work around
or change various parts of the program due to new bugs or
features. I think D2 is much better in the bug department then
D1 was so that isn't much of a issue, but its still not really
stable and its more work for me.


That said there are a couple of features that if they where
implemented in D2 would encourage me to switch.

One of the biggest problem right now is that I can't build
my project on Windows and is forced to cross compile it with GDC
from Linux. This stems from me having a mixed C & D project and
not getting the various compilers to get along (Both DMD & DMC
and GDC & GCC, would either not compile or produce broken
binaries). So making DMD work with the mingw toolchain on
Windows would be really appreciated (COFF support right?).

Improvements to the GC, I'm currently having to thread lightly
around various issues with the GC, again its works currently so
I don't want to work around it again. Adopting a two step
approach employed by GObject would might help.
http://developer.gnome.org/gobject/stable/gobject-memory.html


All said and done, knowing what I know today I would probably
not do the project in D1, but I have thrown my dice and I'm
"stuck" (not used strongly here, I still like a lot of D), but
I'm not sure I would want to go through all that pain again
with D2. As Andrie have said D has a tendency to come unglued
when you start to do advanced thing, and the language dies a
death of a thousand paper-cuts (and some knife stabs).

*phew*

I do appreciate the work you have put into D over the years,
I just don't want to have meaningless battles with language/-
compiler bugs. I hope this message is useful for you.

Cheers, Jakob.
December 15, 2011
On Thursday, 15 December 2011 at 00:09:32 UTC, Jesse Phillips wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABA_Games

ABA Games are technically D0 ;)

(They predate the D 1.00 compiler)