"Alix Pexton" <Alix@seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message news:01c21208$7ab1b4a0$52bc7ad5@jpswm...

> I think that the best short term solution is, if it compiles and passes
the
> "readability test" of the editors then it goes in as it is. But this
brings
> us back to the "what is readability?" question...

You gave the answer yourself: it's when an editor consideres it "readable"
(whatever it would mean). As long as most do, it is readable. =)

> What say you to including a Learning to Program "with D" section?
> A section that nurtures curiosities about programming and more
> specifically about learning to program "with D." This could help
> those that are curious to grow alongside the language, and
> eventually can spin off into something larger (say a book maybe?)
> Would this be too tedious a task? 
> 

http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/cgi-local/pragprog?TheDLanguage

> ----------------------------
> Andrew C. Edwards
> "The heights that great men reached and kept, were not attained
> by sudden flight.  But they, whilst their companion slept, kept toiling
> upwards through the night" - Anonymous
> 

> 
> 
> I like this idea
> 
> 

Me too.  Oddly, I started doing it last night for jakarta.apache.org/poi.  We'll see if it works.  I'm doing
it to learn Spanish.  Since I know the content well, but not the
language it might work.

-Andy

Its not our fault the dang Brits can't learn to speak proper 'merican.

Matthew Wilson wrote:
> Does make me wonder whether we should maintain a list of potential
> translators
> 
> At the moment I am working with a Czech and an American, so that's two more
> languages. He he
> 
> "Matthew Wilson" <dm@synesis-group.com> wrote in message
> news:ae6hnj$13hr$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> 
>>Sounds like a good plan.
>>
>>Bagsy not doing either half of it ... :)
>>
>>"Robert W. Cunningham" <rcunning@acm.org> wrote in message
>>news:3D06C8AF.25AB237F@acm.org...
>>
>>>andy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>You're right. I've noticed that a lot in books. Good computers books
>>>>
>>are
>>
>>>>>originally written in english and a couple of years later translated
>>>>
>>in
>>
>>>>>Mexico. There're 2 problems by that:
>>>>>1. They're often translated by people who don't know the subject.
>>>>
>>Besides,
>>
>>>>>there're some "localization" problems that don't fit here.
>>>>>2. Two years are too much time!
>>>>>About doing something, I had thought about. I'll try to make some
>>>>
> time
> 
>>and
>>
>>>>>translate some of Walter's pages and put them in my site so they
>>>>
> will
> 
>>become
>>
>>>>>available for more people (and will get more hits ;) ).
>>>>>
>>>>>What comforts me is that you people have taken this well. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>My advice is don't make time to translate Walter's pages..  Just do
>>>
> one.
> 
>>>>   Find time and do one.  Start with the most important page.  Later,
>>>>find time to do another maybe.
>>>>
>>>>As for taking it well, I've been begging people to translate my
>>>
> project
> 
>>>>pages (http://jakarta.apache.org/poi).  I'm thinking it will be a kind
>>>>of project for helping me with the spanish class I'm taking.  People
>>>>will be more likely to step forward and tell me "damn, you're wrong it
>>>>should say X" than "find time" to translate them all.  Most projects
>>>>that seek some kind of wide acceptance would gladly welcome
>>>
>>translations.
>>
>>>>Anyhow, generally I think the problem on most project is:
>>>>
>>>>1. Those who need the translations enough to "find time" aren't
>>>
> qualfied
> 
>>>>  (by definition) to perform them
>>>>
>>>>2. Those who are qualified to translate them, are not motivated enough
>>>>to do it.
>>>>
>>>>-Andy
>>>
>>>There is a "middle way":  Get a cheesy translation done any way you can,
>>
>>then get
>>
>>>a native user to polish off the rough edges.
>>>
>>>I've done this for the docs for several small PalmOS apps and Linux PDA
>>
>>tools
>>
>>>from Japan.  The docs were initially in terrible "Japglish", but with
>>
> the
> 
>>basic
>>
>>>documentation form already in place, and with the program in my hand, I
>>
>>was able
>>
>>>to quickly whip the docs into decent English.  And I do mean quickly:
>>
>>About an
>>
>>>hour per page, on average.  It was fun to do, and the positive feedback
>>
>>kept my
>>
>>>ego stroked for months.
>>>
>>>And I also got some serious Geek Cred for it.
>>>
>>>
>>>-BobC
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> 
> 

> 
> I was thinking of writing a XSLT page that turned XML articles and
> abstracts (and an RDF index) into an issue with the help of a D app, but
> I'm fairly new to XSLT and writing the app is still a bit daunting...
> 

Then don't write it.  Steal it.  krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede


> Making a HTML page with comment in that say !-- Articles and stuff go here
> -- is easy, those comments are in the example I did, does that make it a
> stub???
> 

I don't hand code HTML with content.  My mind doesn't work this way.  I either worry about the page lining up right or I worry about the content.  I can't do both in the same page.  I author all documentation in XML, and rarely if ever write the XSLT because it's already been written.  (once....and now it works for *every* page).  Its well worth doing.  Granted, I think working in plain text for the moment and getting actual content is more important.

I also think that Walter (or perhaps Jan) should set up a D wiki.

> 
>>Sound ok?
> 
> 
> In our new found trend toward multilingoism (yes I did just make that word
> up to mean "multiple languages"), I shall use a term common in my local
> tongue...
> 
> Aye...
> 
> Alix Pexton...

"Carlos" <carlos8294@msn.com> wrote in news:ae6ckl$ubl$1@digitaldaemon.com:

>>
>> It's hard for me to tell how well it works but have you tried babelfish?
>>
>> http://babelfish.altavista.com/
> 
> automatic translators s*ck (sorry for the word) :(

No problem. After playing with it a little more
I can say it s*cks translating stuff to english too. :)

If you wanted to do a bulk translation of the D manual, is it easier to do it all by hand or would it be easier to run it through one of these tools, save the results, and then fix the translation.

andy <acoliver@apache.org> wrote in article <3D07536F.2080602@apache.org>...
> > I was thinking of writing a XSLT page that turned XML articles and abstracts (and an RDF index) into an issue with the help of a D app,
but
> > I'm fairly new to XSLT and writing the app is still a bit daunting...
> 
> Then don't write it.  Steal it.  krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede

I don't necessarily have a say in who's web server is used for the journal, if it is apache, then that'll be easy, else another solution would be needed.

Anyway, writing apps for serving the journal is a good incentive for implementing XML support in D (which I've already started).

> > Making a HTML page with comment in that say !-- Articles and stuff go
here
> > -- is easy, those comments are in the example I did, does that make it
a
> > stub???

> I don't hand code HTML with content.  My mind doesn't work this way.

When I first started using HTML, you didn't really have a choice...

> I either worry about the page lining up right or I worry about the content.  I can't do both in the same page.  I author all documentation in XML, and rarely if ever write the XSLT because it's already been written.  (once....and now it works for *every* page).  Its well worth doing.

That's the whole point, you still have to do it once, and for the journal, that once is just coming up...

> Granted, I think working in plain text for the moment and getting actual content is more important.

My goal for assembling the journal pages has three elements, the frame, the content and the index. The frame is XSLT, the content is XML and the index is RDF, there's some CSS in there too, but that isn't dynamic...

Each article has two major parts, the actual article, and an abstract. Each issue is defined as a list of articles in an RDF file which is used to assemble the abstracts into a front page for the issue (a dynamic sort of meta-article) which is passed through the XSLT to generate the front page...

There may also be lots of other RDF's flying around to allow semi-automatic cross-referencing of articles, and better searching of the archives, but that is way, way down the line...

I hope that all made sense and stuff...

Alix Pexton...

All sounds way over my poor web-neophyte head.

Sounds cool though. Can't wait (and don't have to ...)


"Alix Pexton" <Alix@seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message news:01c21238$20fe4b00$769c7ad5@jpswm...
>
>
> andy <acoliver@apache.org> wrote in article <3D07536F.2080602@apache.org>...
> > > I was thinking of writing a XSLT page that turned XML articles and abstracts (and an RDF index) into an issue with the help of a D app,
> but
> > > I'm fairly new to XSLT and writing the app is still a bit daunting...
> >
> > Then don't write it.  Steal it.  krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede
>
> I don't necessarily have a say in who's web server is used for the
journal,
> if it is apache, then that'll be easy, else another solution would be needed.
>
> Anyway, writing apps for serving the journal is a good incentive for implementing XML support in D (which I've already started).
>
> > > Making a HTML page with comment in that say !-- Articles and stuff go
> here
> > > -- is easy, those comments are in the example I did, does that make it
> a
> > > stub???
>
> > I don't hand code HTML with content.  My mind doesn't work this way.
>
> When I first started using HTML, you didn't really have a choice...
>
> > I either worry about the page lining up right or I worry about the content.  I can't do both in the same page.  I author all documentation in XML, and rarely if ever write the XSLT because it's already been written.  (once....and now it works for *every* page).  Its well worth doing.
>
> That's the whole point, you still have to do it once, and for the journal, that once is just coming up...
>
> > Granted, I think working in plain text for the moment and getting actual content is more important.
>
> My goal for assembling the journal pages has three elements, the frame,
the
> content and the index. The frame is XSLT, the content is XML and the index is RDF, there's some CSS in there too, but that isn't dynamic...
>
> Each article has two major parts, the actual article, and an abstract.
Each
> issue is defined as a list of articles in an RDF file which is used to assemble the abstracts into a front page for the issue (a dynamic sort of meta-article) which is passed through the XSLT to generate the front page...
>
> There may also be lots of other RDF's flying around to allow
semi-automatic
> cross-referencing of articles, and better searching of the archives, but that is way, way down the line...
>
> I hope that all made sense and stuff...
>
> Alix Pexton...

Agreed. Let's say this is the way we'll go, until we get enough hate mail to cause a shift in re-bracing policy.

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone@omen.ru> wrote in message news:ae7g2c$2jdf$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> "Alix Pexton" <Alix@seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message news:01c21208$7ab1b4a0$52bc7ad5@jpswm...
>
> > I think that the best short term solution is, if it compiles and passes
> the
> > "readability test" of the editors then it goes in as it is. But this
> brings
> > us back to the "what is readability?" question...
>
> You gave the answer yourself: it's when an editor consideres it "readable"
> (whatever it would mean). As long as most do, it is readable. =)
>
>

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone@omen.ru> wrote in message news:ae6v46$1hsa$1@digitaldaemon.com...
> Seems like a good idea. By the way, D reference is also worth translating.

I think it's great that y'all are willing to do translations. Keep in mind, though that the docs change as I fix errors, rewrite turgid passages, and make improvements. I've started putting date-last-modifieds at the top of the pages, so that at least it's easy to tell which pages are out of date. The html of the pages is pretty straightforward, so diff will be useful in finding the exact changes. I don't use any of those wretched html editors.