August 23, 2005 Re: no frames | ||||
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Posted in reply to AJG | "AJG" <AJG@nospam.com> wrote in message news:dee448$1sh0$1@digitaldaemon.com... > Hi, > > zwang wrote: >> Walter wrote: >> >>> "Jarrett Billingsley" <kb3ctd2@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ded3u7$hkf$1@digitaldaemon.com... >>> >>>> Awful. Not only does it look like a beginner HTML coder made the site, >>> >>> >>> >>> No surprise there, I am a beginner html coder <g>. >>> >>> >>>> it's also a pain to navigate. I miss the frames. >>> >>> >>> >>> The problem with frames is that no other web sites use them for navigation, >> >> >> Sun's JDK online documentation uses frames; >> Microsoft's MSDN documentation uses frames; >> ...and many more. > > I can't speak for the Sun site, but the MSDN navigation menu is a god-forsaken creature best banished to the pits of hell. It's slow, clumsy, overly complex, convoluted, deeply-nested, and is known to crash IE. Worst of all, it uses frames, which are downright sinful by themselves. Avoid such design at _all_ costs. > I agree entirely-it's way overdone. > That's not to say the _content_ of MSDN is bad. In fact, not at all. It's navigation menu that is its Achille's Heel. > > Anyway, if you want an example of a superbly useful nav menu, take a look at the ubiquituous IMDB: > > http://imdb.com/title/tt0060666/combined > > The PHP sites are also very nice in terms of navigation and search. > >> >>> and too many people think it makes the website look clumsy and >>> old-fashioned. One blind user wrote me that frames made it very >>> difficult >>> for him to navigate. >>> >>> The last problem with frames is if you wind up at the page directly >>> from, >>> say, a search engine, one loses all the navigation. >>> >>> Are the navigation problems you're experiencing with it something that >>> is >>> fixable without using frames? > > Cheers, > --AJG. |
August 24, 2005 Re: no frames - (E.T. wants to go home) | ||||
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Posted in reply to Walter | In article <debngi$29kg$2@digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says... > >Improvement? Keep it? > >www.digitalmars.com/d/index.html > > Walter, the no frames does look cleaner, but I must admit that it does seem a little bit harder now to navigate around in...which I'm sure I'll adjust to it. But it feels strange to post a message in the web interface, and to be left with no link back to forum. Currently, I think this may lead to some mistaken double posting...from yours truly, and others. After posting, all you're left with is: --------------------------------------- Posting - Please wait... Article Posted Copyright Newsguy News Service --------------------------------------- Please place a link that'll put one back into the forum, or better yet, back to the list of forums. <g> Thanks, David L. P.S. Feeling a little like E.T. right now, and all I need is a link to the forum homepage. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Dare to reach for the Stars...Dare to Dream, Build, and Achieve!" ------------------------------------------------------------------- MKoD: http://spottedtiger.tripod.com/D_Language/D_Main_XP.html |
August 24, 2005 Re: no frames | ||||
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Posted in reply to Walter | Walter, You'll have to forgive me, I'm a crazy XHTML freak. http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//www.digitalmars.com/d/index.html In short: border=1 cellpadding=8 cellspacing=0 -> border="1" cellpadding="8" cellspacing="0" nowrap> -> nowrap="nowrap"> onFocus -> onfocus {this.value="";}'> -> {this.value="";}' /> value="www.digitalmars.com"> -> value="www.digitalmars.com" /> value="www.digitalmars.com/d"> -> value="www.digitalmars.com/d" /> value="google-search"> -> value="google-search" /> value="Go"> -> value="Go" /> <hr><br> -> <hr /><br /> <br> -> <br /> (lots of times) </td></table> -> </td></tr></table> I wish I had time to put into this myself - suggestions, comments other than validation, javascript code to highlight code snippets (assuming any of it would be worthwhile), but I don't just now... -[Unknown] > Improvement? Keep it? > > www.digitalmars.com/d/index.html > > |
August 24, 2005 Re: no frames | ||||
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Posted in reply to Unknown W. Brackets | In article <deh146$13ar$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Unknown W. Brackets says... > >Walter, > >You'll have to forgive me, I'm a crazy XHTML freak. > >http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//www.digitalmars.com/d/index.html What is this "transitional" you speak of? ;) --AJG. /1.1 Freak. |
August 24, 2005 Re: no frames | ||||
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Posted in reply to Walter |
It is certainly better than previous. :)
--
...........
Dejan Lekic
http://dejan.lekic.org
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August 24, 2005 Re: no frames | ||||
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Posted in reply to AJG | Also known as "supporting browsers other than Deer Park and Internet Explorer 7".
-[Unknown]
> In article <deh146$13ar$1@digitaldaemon.com>, Unknown W. Brackets says...
>
>>Walter,
>>
>>You'll have to forgive me, I'm a crazy XHTML freak.
>>
>>http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//www.digitalmars.com/d/index.html
>
>
> What is this "transitional" you speak of?
>
> ;)
>
> --AJG.
> /1.1 Freak.
>
>
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August 24, 2005 Re: no frames | ||||
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Posted in reply to Stewart Gordon Attachments: | Stewart Gordon wrote: <snip> > If you don't want to do it anymore, I'll give it a go. Here's an idea: I'll take one of the pages home to work on, write a stylesheet and then post the result here. When this is done, if it's OK with everyone then we can work on getting the others converted. <snip> Attached is what I've ended up with. Changes implemented: - Cleaned up markup in the navigation header and sidebar a bit. This should be replicated on all pages, with only the content of the sidebar below the <hr> varying from section to section. Used <ul> rather than · for contents list. No doubt there's a way of controlling the bullet shape/size in CSS, but I'm not sure what it is. - Enclosed all paragraphs in <p> tags, and got rid of the misplaced ones. - Replaced tables used to delimit code with simple <pre>, using CSS to format. - Removed indentation of whole portions of code (and added a bit of indentation in the stylesheet), and replaced tab characters used to lay out code with spaces. - Tried to tweak code comments so that line lengths are within the 800x600 settings of my Windows box. Almost succeeded but not quite. - Run through spellchecker. Not that there was much to fix on this particular page, but there's certainly plenty on others. Open issues: - What maximum line length should we adhere to for the code examples on the site? - I haven't as yet got rid of all the presentational HTML markup, but at least what remains is more run of the mill. Like using a table to lay out the page, and the frequency of <b> and <i> tags - we could replace some of them with something more logical, but others are harder to deal with short of wordier <span> elements. Stewart. -- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS/M d- s:- a->--- UB@ P+ L E@ W++@ N+++ o K- w++@ O? M V? PS- PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++>++++ h-- r-- !y ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit. |
August 24, 2005 Re: no frames | ||||
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Posted in reply to Stewart Gordon | Stewart Gordon wrote: <snip> > Attached is what I've ended up with. Oops, I meant to run it through the validator before posting it! The only errors were three instances of <h3> improperly nested inside <a>. But it's simple to fix <h3><a name="typedef">Type Defining</a></h3> and now the page is valid HTML. Stewart. -- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS/M d- s:- a->--- UB@ P+ L E@ W++@ N+++ o K- w++@ O? M V? PS- PE- Y? PGP- t- 5? X? R b DI? D G e++>++++ h-- r-- !y ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on the 'group where everyone may benefit. |
August 24, 2005 Re: Fixed Navigation (was "no frames") | ||||
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Posted in reply to Hasan Aljudy | "Hasan Aljudy" <hasan.aljudy@gmail.com> wrote in message news:defrh3$1uf6$1@digitaldaemon.com... > yea, you're missing something: > pull out all the "style" definitions to a .css file, then include it in > your html. > > I'm not sure about the details, but I think: > <head> > <!-- what ever you want to put ... --> > <link href="style.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"> > </head> Oh yeah, that's what I'm doing already; it's just that it's a bit of a pain to have to copy the: <div id="header> blah blah blah </div> <div id="sidebar"> links to stuff </div> Into every page, if it's going to be exactly the same on every page. What AJG suggested with SSI sounds like what I'm aiming for. |
August 24, 2005 Re: Fixed Navigation (was | ||||
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Posted in reply to AJG | "AJG" <AJG_member@pathlink.com> wrote in message news:defm1k$1hfo$1@digitaldaemon.com... > What you need, my man, is a little dynamic magic. What kind of server > setup are > you running? > > The simplest solution to your dilemma is SSI (server-side includes). This > is a > very straightforward way of including content from one file into many > other > files. > > So you would have: > > ~/nav.inc.html = contains navigation code. > ~/index.shtml = contains index page. > ~/page1.shtml = some other page. > > Then, in index.shtml and page1.shtml (and every other page you want the > nav menu > to appear in), you would INCLUDE nav.inc.html. > > The canonical way to do this is with the following: > > <!--#include file="nav.inc.html" --> > > For that to work, your server must support SSI, and the _container_ page > must be > named with a .shtml extension. The _included_ page can have any extension, > unless it, too, has SSI in it, in which case it must also be .shtml. That sounds like a good idea. I'll have to check out if my server supports SSI. Thanks for the suggestion! > More elaborate solutions exist using Perl or PHP or even Apache magic, but > I > think the simplest, quickest one is SSI. Let me know if it works out for > you. Yeah, I really don't know anything about either, but I'm pretty sure my server supports PHP. Maybe I'll look into that once I start with my web design class :) |
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