Hi!

I'm unsure what is the Russian equivalent for the term "range", as in "D range", the generalization of a pair of iterators.  With "range" being such an overloaded term in source language and having no exact equivalent in the target language, its Russian translations I have come up with don't sound quite right.

Is there an "official" translation already?  In TDPL, the (very few) occurrences of "range" are translated as "диапазон" (Cyrillic for "diapason"), how official is that?  In Russian, the term "diapason" in computerspeak is used to refer to a range of possible values, as in "the range (diapason) for an ubyte variable is from 0 to 255".  Also, it has four syllables, making it long-ish to pronounce.

The original article "On Iteration"[0] suggests that the name "iterator" would also fit if it was not so heavily used, but in Russian, we also have that loan word with the same meaning and usage already.

I guess synonyms or translations into other languages with some interlingual explanations could also help.

Ivan Kazmenko.

[0] http://www.informit.com/articles/printerfriendly/1407357

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:50:16 +0000
Ivan Kazmenko via Digitalmars-d-learn
<digitalmars-d-learn@puremagic.com> wrote:

> Is there an "official" translation already?  In TDPL, the (very few) occurrences of "range" are translated as "диапазон"
methinks that "последовательность"[0] is better, albeit longer. but
nobody will use that except 3.5 freaks, it's way too long. but
"диапазон" is completely wrong anyway.


[0] "sequence", but without connotation of any ordering.

Another synonym is "list".

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 14:08:36 +0000
Kagamin via Digitalmars-d-learn <digitalmars-d-learn@puremagic.com>
wrote:

> Another synonym is "list".
hm... i afraid that it's not suitable. "list" has a well-defined meaning in programming literature. ranges are definitely not lists (but list can be a range).

ah! "набор"! it's short, it not collides with well-defined terms, it describes what range is. it even consists of five letters! ;-)

I was thinking about list comprehension, which is what programming on ranges is. Isn't it?

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 14:52:55 +0000
Kagamin via Digitalmars-d-learn <digitalmars-d-learn@puremagic.com>
wrote:

> I was thinking about list comprehension, which is what programming on ranges is. Isn't it?
"list" is a good term, but it's already taken. so naming "range" as "list" will create unnecessary confusion. alas. yet "набор" is short and easy, and it's not widely used, as "set" is translated as "множество".

but it's for OP to decide, of course.

On Tuesday, 11 November 2014 at 15:03:40 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d-learn wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 14:52:55 +0000
> Kagamin via Digitalmars-d-learn <digitalmars-d-learn@puremagic.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I was thinking about list comprehension, which is what programming on ranges is. Isn't it?
> "list" is a good term, but it's already taken. so naming "range" as
> "list" will create unnecessary confusion. alas. yet "набор" is short
> and easy, and it's not widely used, as "set" is translated as
> "множество".
>
> but it's for OP to decide, of course.

What does "набор" mean literally? What is it?

>>> I was thinking about list comprehension, which is what programming on ranges is. Isn't it?
>> "list" is a good term, but it's already taken. so naming "range" as
>> "list" will create unnecessary confusion. alas. yet "набор" is short
>> and easy, and it's not widely used, as "set" is translated as
>> "множество".
>>
>> but it's for OP to decide, of course.
>
> What does "набор" mean literally? What is it?

As I see it, "набор" can informally be translated as "collection", most frequently unordered and allowing duplicates. I often see and use it as a human-readable translation of the term "multiset" in texts which are not too formal (the exact translation "мультимножество" is way too long and scientific).

The suggested translations "диапазон" (diapason), "список" (list), "последовательность" (sequence), "набор" (collection) all have something in common with the range concept, but all of them seem to have a defined meaning in either maths or computer science.  Maybe it's inevitable, just like "range" is itself an overloaded term in English.

Ivan Kazmenko.

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 15:38:26 +0000
Chris via Digitalmars-d-learn <digitalmars-d-learn@puremagic.com> wrote:

> What does "набор" mean literally? What is it?
something like "(unordered) set of something similar but not same,
which can (eventually) be counted and things can be extracted/added".
like this.

"набор ручек для писания", for example, as "set of pens from which one
pen can be taken and used (or another pen added to be used later)".
pretty similar to what "range" in D is, methinks.

On Tuesday, 11 November 2014 at 16:00:56 UTC, Ivan Kazmenko wrote:
> The suggested translations "диапазон" (diapason), "список" (list), "последовательность" (sequence), "набор" (collection) all have something in common with the range concept, but all of them seem to have a defined meaning in either maths or computer science.  Maybe it's inevitable, just like "range" is itself an overloaded term in English.

Yes, this is pretty much the case. One can't find translation for a range that won't have any additional connotations because "range" is itself heavily overloaded word in English.

In my opinion:

"диапазон" is ok to describe a finite forward range
"последовательность" is solid generic term if you are not afraid of making mathematicians mad

I don't like "список" or "набор" because they don't necessarily imply iteration which is the most crucial aspect of range concept.

In practice I think it is OK to use any of those terms if you use it consistently within a book / article and explain its meaning somewhere in the very beginning.